ZeeHero wrote:
I hate these conmparisons with DC and Marvel but I need to do a clear example:

If you play a batman-like character, fall damage is absolutely accurate.
If you play a superman-like character, fall damage is not realistic.

Not every superhero is invulnerable.

Making this optional would be great. Everyone could decide what kind of hero (or villain) he wants to be.

But making it part of the Genetics system would just make it something everyone takes.

Come on, how many times do we see batman break his fall with the Batcape (tm) and end up entirely unharmed? almost every time.

This put me in mind of one of the early episodes of RWBY where Ozpin's like, "You'll have to come up with your own landing strategy."

Oddly, I really liked fall damage in CoX. Granted, this is completely dumb, but one of my favorite things to do was to get onto the tallest structure in-zone, try to hit the vertical limit, and then drop to ground level from a bird's-eye camera angle. Probably because I usually played drunk? But still fun watching the hp bar drop to 1.

Back to the comment about Superman vs. Batman, there's a difference between falling and moving through space. If someone is literally falling, and that toon does not have some degree of imperviousness, then there should be damage to that. Maybe there is a generic "batcape" power that people take to avoid fall damage. Or maybe squishy people who can't fly or jump could just be smarter about not falling.

I immerse myself in a toon with super reflexes and an augmented ability to shoot guns, and I fall off a 70-story building? I should get hurt. I'm someone who can jump over that building? No damage. I say let player build decisions and ingenuity determine the outcome.

Or, you know, just have fall damage and count on people to avoid falling.

On the previous topic, I'm fine with XP debt. I think the idea of a debt-reducing NPC is interesting, but I wouldn't call it a therapist. I don't think it should be a time-out type of thing. I like the idea of a zero XP mission to eliminate/reduce debt, but then, how is that any different from doing a regular mission to pay back debt?

The consequence mechanic for the "therapist" will be key. What if it was something like a pawn shop, only for powers? Like, you have debt, you go to the power pawn shop, and they'll eliminate your XP debt, but you have to give up one of your powers for a certain period? Something significant, like a movement power or defensive skill. And the duration of the lock-out would scale with the amount of debt, or maybe a sliding scale based on the number of powers forfeited (e.g. one power for an hour vs. three powers for 15 minutes).

Adding additional layers of punishment to the player for dying doesn't make things interesting, it makes things more painful and annoying.

ZeeHero wrote:
I just got reminded of the old Sierra adventure games. Opposed to their big competitor Lucas Arts, back from when Computers where made out of wood, the protagonists could die in these. A lot. It was not just -dead, game over-. It usually came with a graphic/animation window and a pun. Stripped to the bare bones it was basically the same. The char died, you got a confirmation window and you had to reload. But with always having a little graphic & joke attached to it made it fun enough that sometimes you killed the char of just to see the new sequence & pun.

My strong impression is that it is similar with what the VO devs are trying. They, as far as I can tell, already have their mind set up on having a death penalty which might or might not be an actual penalty. How severe it will be I doubt we have much influence in. BUT they want to know how to make it less painful and annoying (No, not by "get rid of it") and that is where we can deliver ideas to make it at least an interesting part of the game; something that feels more natural maybe.

So instead of going completely ballistic (at least that is the impression I get) whenever somebody says "death penalty" and maybe shoot down an idea which could make the inevitable more interesting how about you think something up which could turn the painful annoyance into something you could be entertained with?

Whatever it is I hope its nothing more than simple limited XP debt, becuase some of the ideas being suggested here sound a lot better than they'd play out. People aren't thinking it through when they suggest things.

More screenshots posted!

I've actually consolidated all the screenshots so far into the first post in reverse chronological order and when adding more will put the newest ones first to make it easier to find them.



valiance.shogn.net/forum/bulletins-annou...p-screenshots-videos

love the hospital bed, like the "skyways" bits that was my fav part about grandvill.

good to hear you plan to keep a CoH style xp debt ant therapist, i think people forget how forgiving CoH/CoV was with that so long as you werent dying and running in a really inconvenient direction over and over.... im assuming it will be similar(a NPC in hospital to wipe it. if you dont any xp debt part of your bar you havnt worked off or cleared you lose if you die again and you get another X amount of debt to clear or work off?) XP earnt at X reduced rate for Y amount of time?.

i had a lot of squishy chars in CoH, can i request generosity on account binding though, so char sets that do struggle at periods can be gifted powerful enhancements to compensate/balance out any serious balance issues different power combos experience in their maturing

ZeeHero wrote:
so people that dont like fall damage take a nullifyer in char traits those that dont mind it take a different trait whats the issue?
its unlikely you'll have fall immunity and breathing under water extra all available in 1 char some stuff will be mutually exclusive and depending on the char people will take different paths


edit, love the trait pic's.

is foresight bat cape/no/reduced fall damage?

have you considered "supper smell" "acute senses" or "6th sense" as one of the unlisted traits to go with far sight(super sight) and sonic hearing(super hearing).

that could give you superior stealth sight at close range. (that way my werewolf with his bionic arm doesnt have shape shifters sneaking past him into the bosses casino)
also those that really hate things stealthing them have a trait to reduce that grief. at the trade off of not being able to breath underwater or similar and it only being quite short ranged

Lovely apartment pictures

A good housing system can do wonders; I hate the homeless and living on the street feeling many MMOs have.

I hope for lots of fine-tuning; decorating and interactivity (sitting on the couch, turning TVs on/off; etc.).

Some new character generation and signature character screenshots posted!

Woah! I'm so looking forward to create a character in Valiance!

looking through some of the city scape again i was wondering have you guys considered anti terror bollards along the edges of some CBD roads near the official buildings shopping areas extra?

because looking at your back story(which i love) the game world would have as many or more random attacks as the modern world and would probably have many of the modern worlds solutions to that in more technological form.

maybe make the bollards double as parking meter's and or communication terminals with a force field around the road ward 1/2. (it would also let you have copious and easily find able terminals in "civilized" maps if you where wanting certain things like exchange needing to be initiated from a terminal)

i also think roving surveillance drones as NPC's in some areas would be cool if its not to resource heavy

and hyper/alien/super/metal detectors on all official buildings, most corner stores extra

last but not least a lot of security cameras, have every light post obviously have antennas and such/be a surveillance device

all stuff for later on/polish rather then for alpha, which i cant wait for, but thought id mention it now

There has to be a debt/reward system. If you do not use XP, then you have to come up with some other retardation system anyway, otherwise everyone reaches the cap way too soon and you burn through the content without any incentive to do side missions, additional content, etc.

XP debt has never, ever, in any game I've played that uses it (I've played a lot of MMOs. Most of them use some form of it.) actually eliminated reaching end-game, nor has it severely hampered my time reaching end-game for my DPS / Support characters vs. my Guardian / Tank / Captain / Whatever your fancy Characters. Was there a time difference? Sure. Never anything to get excited about though. At most a 1 to 1.5 scale? That's going solo too. If you team with others, then you're going to level just as fast as your counterparts.

Not to mention - in most games, DPS toons usually have at least 1 or 2 insane AoE powers, etc. that counter the slow grind of the other types. So the ratio is really quite negligible in most cases. Actually, in most games - it is a much longer grind to solo a tank for the first several levels than a DPS toon. The logic just doesn't hold. In teams - tanks do great, and in that case - everyone does so... I kind of find this argument moot.

I really don't see the difference between XP or any other debt system when you look at teaming, solo, and other play times in-game, unless your only goal is just power-leveling the same content over and over.

Star Trek Online, and Champions Online both have no XP debt. Nothing wrong with reaching endgame quickly either. people will always level at their own pace whether you artificially slow it down with punishing death mechanics or not.

The question is do you want to punish players on top of the frustration they feel for failure.

I can see both sides of the argument, however in my opinion I want there to be a risk involved in me dying. I also like the idea for incentives to sidekick lower level players and help them along in the game (slight bonus to XP for teams for example, kill off any of that debt) - or of course help your groupmantes with their new alts.

EDIT: The question is not "do you want to punish players on top of the frustration they feel for failure".
That's a choice rendered by the player upon themselves.
Placing a moral negative on a game developer is not a valid comparison to just a concept of risk, reward, or lack thereof in a simple game mechanic.

Tomato Tomahto I guess.

BACK ON TOPIC: The screenshots look fantastic and for the love of God... PLEASE don't forget to at least update the chicks some too... my wife is going to kill me if the chicks don't get eyeballs and a few costume choices.

omgosh those screens of the city look great. Cant wait to test out some power sets!

Took a few screen shots, how do I add them?