Word is CoT are working on implementing a standalone creator. Do you all think it would be more beneficial to wet the appetites of the hero universe with a standalone creator as opposed to a watered down version of the game?

The reason I ask? Negativity is attached to early access. Some people do not understand nor care that the project is in Alpha, therefore make judgements based upon the product that is placed before them. With a creator, the only gripe will be improved models, which are visually evident when the game is near completion.

I feel as if character models are more forgiving, because visual improvements are noticeable to the novice such as myself; whereas Alpha models, bugs, controls, environment, and combat are less than forgiving because they represent the game in its' entirety, and the first impression is everything. Is it possible to place a creator for pets and heroes through Steam? For a price?

Thoughts?

I think gamers are more intelligent than say even 3 years ago. With the large amount of Kickstarter and other crowd funding games as well as Steam community Greenlit projects people are more aware and forgiving of alpha and pre-alpha builds.

You could essentially say what they already have out is a Creator that then allows you to move around the city a bit. There's not much/any mission content or bad guys.

You already have the creator Devs also typically are about 2-5 builds further along than we see so keep that in mind too.

To me it would be wrong to call what we currently have to a character creator with the possibility to move around in the world. Besides it's not so much about what we currently have but rather what we will have, even after going live.

I don't want to have to load the entire game just to play around in the character creator, nor being dependent on an internet connection to start it. Being able to design ones character completely offline would be fairly big advantage.

Well it's a matter of what you want more.

More progress on the eventual goal of a more fleshed out alpha state game?

Or divert programmer and other developer time to creating a standalone character creator that can be used offline and doesn't require loading the whole game.

For me loading the game takes about 30 seconds and my computer is 6 years old (older I think). And was "Mid-Range" when I built it.

As for the internet connectivity unless you're on dial-up which few are these days, whether or not your computer is connected is a non-issue, most people have their PCs connected all the time except if they're on a laptop on the road. Even then its possible with a mobile phone hotspot.

Their priority is to get the game moving forward as much as possible. The current state of it allows you to play to a certain extent with costumes and so forth. I wouldn't hold my breath of resources being diverted away from the end goal for a stand-alone offline character creator.

Powerhelm wrote:
Not sure this is an old trend, say 3 years ago this thread is fairly recent and gave me the idea. cityoftitans.com/forum/early-access-good-or-bad

Early access is frowned upon for some reason. Those Titan fans are fairly knowledgeable and share the same sentiments as a novice, but with more insight and understanding of the process. They understand the process, but feel as if a watered down version is nothing more than a money grab and a missed opportunity to create a good first impression.

Unless this game does a complete 180, an early access release that resembles what we have now will, imo, will destroy VO before it is complete. Like the guys said, first impressions are everything.

Also, Steam may be one of the most unforgiving places on earth with the vote down system. The CO and DCUO people are watching as-well and will pounce on a watered down version of VO unless it runs much, much, much smoother than what we have.

The new patch is implementing more quest and early access for investors, but hardly anyone tests out VO because it is unplayable in its' current state. VO cannot enter Steam with anything close to the current product. They stated how most of the tech has not been implemented, well, so i will wait and see.

We've got Paragon chat for creating stuff and roaming around. Give me something to thump anytime. As for stand alone, my wife would say, internets down? Go fix the roof or something along those lines.

This is a redundant argument. Just stop and think about it for a moment. If you have an offline character creator - what do you need to do that? A complete character creator engine plus a crapload of content to go with it.
If you are going to do that - why would you not then just put it into the game? As intelligent and important a topic you say this is, how is this not on the top of the discussion? You can't code something for offline somehow 'easier' than what you're already doing for your online environment.
They aren't going to release on Steam in the state it is currently in. There are huge updates coming. I don't think people have anything to worry about with VO. Aside from impatience and perhaps a bit of a lack of knowledge from not having been here through the whole process... VO is doing great. They've been making steady progress for over a year. Some of it in giant leaps.
Some of the engine advancements they added for future tech that will be needed is actually what caused the game to be not quite as smooth as it was a few releases ago. So the jitters and such you talk about as bad - are actually quite a good thing when the new models, animations, and powers get dropped in because they *need* what is being tested right now.
Steam can difinitely be punishing, but it can also be a huge benefit.
The VO team are an awesome group of people. I'm betting they won't start on Steam until they officially announce Alpha. We're still at pre-Alpha remember

Powerhelm wrote:
First and foremost, thanks for the replies guys/gals (if there are any lol).

Take a look at this.



According to the folks, this is DCUO pre-alpha.

There are some other pre-alpha footage on Youtube of various other games.

Look, I am no tech guy, nor developer, but I have a feeling about VO, and it is not a good one. I am rooting for this game, but there may be a reason why hardly anyone test. There has to be a reason why nobody talks about VO.

I am a DCUO player, and when i attempt to create VO threads, it gets lost in the shuffle. Nobody cares, because there is nothing to see nor wet their appetites.

I would not call what we have now a creator nor a game. I doubt they are far along, just my humble opinion. Hopefully I am wrong, but I would rather see a standalone creator as opposed to a watered down version because I have little faith in VO's progression. I want to see it succeed, but releasing a product anything close to what they have out atm would be disastrous.

I understand that not all of the tech is implemented,but a creator is more forgiving than a game in its' "entirety" that is all I am saying; a creator is more forgiving than an incomplete game.

Although I disagree with most, I respect your opinions. I just feel as if a standalone creator for heroes and pets is a better strategy than giving fans a taste of the game, I would save the meat of VO (gameplay) for later, beta. Steam is too unforgiving.

Pet customization has never been done. Players spend hours on the creator, and i am willing to bet that they would pay to test out this one. What we have now is nowhere close to a creator, not by a long shot.

TheCity wrote:
I respect your opinion, but you are relying on your own opinion as to what others would pay for which I highly doubt most would pay for a character creator. Also, this is all volunteer coding right now - there are no resources to spend extra months of coding time on a separate project and take away from the progress of the game itself. It makes no sense.

The amount of content VO is about to push is amazing considering. They're not even to Alpha yet. I believe from what they've repeatedly said their path forward is - they're doing this next big push, generating some noise and interest, likely have one more big push and announce full Alpha and go to Steam.

You're announcing them 'dead' / bad feeling before they've even shown what they can really do. They're the only ones that have consistently shown progress and effort over time. Without any real funding source. Just some donations from a few people. Enough to help keep servers online that's about it.

I think it is telling that you have previous animatiors, artists, and developers from City of Heroes attaching themselves to *this* project and not others. There is a reason for that. So I wouldn't go discounting them so easily.

We should all just take a deep breath, relax, and enjoy the show. We're about to see some really awesome stuff and I can't wait to be there when it happens!

On a footnote: If you haven't been here very long, this game has gone from rough, to butter smooth, to rough again several times. It's development. The only reason it seems a little jittery now is they've thrown a bunch of new underlying technology into the world for new models, animations, etc. Current models and such are reacting a little jittery to it, but that's life in pre-alpha. If it is that worrisome - just wait for Alpha. It won't be so troublesome by then

Mandrake wrote:
Hope you are right, but I doubt it. Will be here to gladly eat my crow or sadly say i told you all so , hopefully not the latter.

You have no idea what this game looked like in 2014 if you are making that remark. Also the sudden improvement in CoT is taking over the development of a game that someone else has been working on for years. He was onboarded and his project is now magically MWM. That's fine and I'm happy they finally found something to get behind. Otherwise it was about to be an all out war over where did the money go. You're comparing apples to oranges however.

I don't know where you're coming up with this whole 'if they need us it's a problem' stuff. If you're looking for games made from major studios then you will definitely need to look elsewhere. Why do you consider MWM to be one if you frown upon crowdfunding? They would not exist without Kickstarter, and there is a big bunch of backstory on that I wish would be told but never will be.

Blueprints and plans already in place? They are in place. I don't know what your issue is. They are allowing the players to be a part of the process and to fund the project as it goes. If you don't like the process then you don't like it. That's fine. It's no different than many other games that have been successful on the market today. Ever hear of Minecraft? I'm not comparing size of success, but you want to talk about a pitiful excuse for pre-alpha? Come on.

Would love to be wrong? About what? People from CoH working on VO? Everything you keep pointing to that makes no sense?

Look man, if you're disappointed with something, or don't like a projects path or something that's great - it's your prerogative and I don't think anyone here would gainsay you that. However, there is no reason to make remarks that are disingenuous.

At this point, I will just agree to disagree and wish everyone the best on this subject. Havea great day everyone and I look forward to seeing you in game!

Take care,
Mandrake

Mandrake wrote:
VO was available to test in 2014. I understand that you love the game and will defend it from detractors, but disingenuous? Hmmm, a bit testy and personal there but I am not one whom gets into internet wars.

However, I stand by what I said, VO has a lot to prove and most do not know/nor care about it atm. It is what it is. I want VO to succeed as-well.

Also, you appear riled up, therefore did not wholly read my post. I want to be wrong about the progress, not the people. I do not know the people....this is not personal. Why would I attack the people on a personal level over a game? It is not that serious man, lol, calm down.....

Mandrake wrote: Word. What he said.

TheCity wrote:
I don't recall trying to say you had it out for anyone personally, so I re-read my post and yours. As far as I can tell, we were discussing the project itself. Not sure where taking things so personally got involved?

I thought that overall it was a rather normal conversation. Believe me, if I get riled up - you'll know. Just ask around. lol

Keep calm, breathe deep. It will all come to fruition soon enough
Later!
Mandrake

Mandrake wrote:
www.google.com/search?q=disingenuous&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

Again, I never attacked any poster's character, although I disagree with their sentiments. Also, I am calm, hehe, not calling out anyone's character. Just saying. But anyway, imo, VO has made no real strides, otherwise more people would know about it. That is all I am saying. I want VO to succeed as-well, but i just don't see it, notably if they need our funds to do so.

How much did COT need er a get?

Sorry, I do not recall the exact numbers, but I think it was well over $600,000? Hopefully someone can correct me on this. Not sure how much they needed though. Although I am high on them, I am not getting my hopes up. I truly believe it takes a professional/established studio to produce an successful MMO.

Star Citizen raised millions, but is still in Alpha iirc.

They collected $678,189 on a $320,000 goal according to their Kickstarter page.

And what have we gotten from them?

Them who?

MWM? Why would/should we get something from them?