And how to make an XP-penalty a penalty at max level? Die 3 times and drop a level? Nobody cares about an XP debt at max level. Its like trying to insult someone by emptying a glass of water over their head when they are in a pool swimming.

Anothername wrote:
You could do like STO does and make players still earn XP at max level for extra advancement points or some form of endgame progression.

With this adverse reaction to a death penalty just how much are people expecting to die?

SavageFist wrote:
you evidently never did hami raids, pvp or task forces. Never had a raid boss enrage and do 250k hp hits to you. Never had a enemy minion lose his morale roll and go running down the hallway only to bring 4 or 5 groups of his friends back with him. People die in MMOs, not necessarily through bad decisions or bad play. Death penalties are meant to be a minor inconvenience, not make everyone run around afraid of their own shadow. Death penalties will not force/teach people to play the way you want them too. People in coh used to recall friend people up in the air or off cliffs. With a heavy DP this would be a great way to grief.

ivanhedgehog wrote:
Yes, I did all of that and not sure why you are assuming so much. One, Hami raids were normally done at max level which XP debt did nothing and also brings up the other question that if you are adverse to XP debt why complain when it does not affect you at max level? Two, yes I did do task forces and died plenty but I also LEARNED how to play better and die much less. XP debt wasn't the sole reason I decided to learn but it was definitely a factor and let me be very clear I am talking about myself here. At the very least I believe it would make them avoid bad habits like zerging every encounter. With no death penalty there is no consequence to your actions except travel. *yawn*, with travel powers and all the options for going to zones, travel in CoH was trivial. As far as Recall Friend, you could turn that feature off so you would get a prompt to either accept or deny the recall so that point is moot. "Afraid of their own shadow"? Can we keep the hyperbole toned down a bit? Perma death, I would say you have a point but with XP debt, really?

Maybe a compromise is to make it optional and give the player a small buff like a choice between XP, accuracy, damage, etc and it is a 24 hour thing you can't just turn off and on so you get it only for 'easy' encounters.

If I had my choice though I like the option of being captured and having to fight my way free I had mentioned earlier. At least there is some roleplay value there. Or to modify that a bit, yes, you get captured but still earn full XP though get captured too many times, you get a badge you can't turn off for a short duration that indicates something like "Leviathan's lackey" or "Ripped again by Riftwalkers".

Someone on Facebook suggested, "You die in the game, you die for real."

Hmmmmmm...

AEGIS wrote:
Now we are on to something! Might have to slightly tweak the name a bit... Sword Art Online? LoL

AEGIS wrote:
And there we have our death penalty- Silverhelm assassins- Ahem, Employees- will come to your house and murder- um Un-Alive you. I'm sure it will go over much better than limited xp debt!

SavageFist wrote:
xp debt is fine. there was a mission in coh that sent you to prison. fine for one mission. expensive cash sinks and punishing penalties...not fine. COH had it pretty much right on the mark. maybe giving you a button to turn on rp death missions, that would be fine, as long as it was your choice. They could have a number of "death" options that would keep those that wanted to entertained. because that is what a game is all about.

Frosty3579 wrote:
this with a little exp or cash gain reduction depending if leveling or max level yet.

certain areas, some task forces bank robbery's extra it would be good if you died to be chucked in aracnos's/police cells extra that used to be fun.

remember having to fight your way back to group or have them come bust you out.

basically id stick pretty much with what CoH had with neverwinter/startrek's injury system because it adds a lot of immersion and isnt to inconvenient

Neverwinter's is very inconvenient becuase of how it's implemented. you don't get injuries from dying in neverwinter, theyre automatically applied every time you trigger a trap in dungeons- and did I mention dungeons are FULL of those hated traps?

Meanwhile your team is never willing to wait the 5 seconds it takes to use a injury kit on the spot so you're stuck the whole dungeon with ever increasing injury.

coh had it right. xp debt + travel back was enough. wakies, level rezzing and raise dead could help but a trip from the hospital was enough penalty. I see absolutely no reason to make it annoying and awkward. If people dont play with you the way you want them too, dont team with them.

ZeeHero wrote:
Pff... next time sent the barbarian

ZeeHero wrote:
Ah, this is a newer feature... When it first started the traps weren't so annoying. They changed it up not too long ago. Guess I have been out of the MMO scene awhile.

Frosty3579 wrote:
Yeah I think the STO model is a superior option. Stackable debuffs in the form of injuries which add up the more you die but can be removed either by consumable items or visiting a sickbay in key locations.

ZeeHero wrote:
The wound option does not apply in standard pve play. Only in certain modes. Therefore giving casual players the chance to simply respawn and rejoin whichever battle.

This is true for STO and could be true for VO if they decide to go that route.

The injuries apply on any difficulty higher than Normal, to clarify. Elite and Advanced content is actually very popular due to the greater rewards.

thats basicly how neverwinter's works also stacking movement ext debuffs the traps thing was when they nerfed traps to do almost nothing then realized all their dungeons had buzz saws that used to cut you in half but now people where just standing on top of so they made them inflict a injury to discourage people from ignoring them entirely. they used to have a decent chance of killing you as they would in reality, the injury is still a lot softer option.
one of them clears off every few mins that your in a rest zone and you can use kits to clear them and even fully applied they are like a 10% decrease.
but they add a lot of character and even though they are only like a maximum 10% speed or damage or health decrease most people still avoid them

I really dont get the drive to make the game annoying. Especially any mechanism that makes you sit around and wait for a period of time pointlessly doing nothing. This encourages you to go afk and very likely log out due to the timer. Bad game design. What exactly are you trying to accomplish with this? Players will play how they want to play. COH gave xp debt that added a cost to dieing, but didnt change how people played ingame. People will become better players if they wish too, creating disincentives will not change this.

I didn't finish reading the whole thread, so sorry if this has already been explored, but what if the death penalty is a teaming penalty? I don't know how you would do it, but I'm coming from the mindset of, I don't really care how much someone dies on their own if it doesn't affect my gameplay. But if someone wants to team with me and I see they've died 10 times in the last 5 minutes, that might affect my teaming decision.

If someone doesn't want to become a better player, the game shouldn't force them to. If someone doesn't mind dying all the time, and it doesn't bother anyone else's game experience, whatever. The only place where this is really relevant is when you're trying to make teams, and you don't want to team with someone who sucks.

Maybe something like, if you want to team with someone who isn't recognized as an account friend, then in addition to the "accept" mechanism, your number of deaths in the last 60 minutes are also displayed. And if the number of deaths is greater than zero, a majority of the other team members have to accept you, like a voting system.

I don't know how well that would work, but in my head it might deter the actual problem: Careless players ruining things for other people.