Here's my two cents, make of it as you will.

There are currently not too many P2P MMOs out there, the big fish in that particular pond being WoW (which is ancient, and thus both heavily polished and positively dripping with lore/content) and to a lesser degree FFXIV (which is newer by far, but also very polished and with a sizeable amount of content). Competing in that pond would require bursting out the gate with a City-sized amount of lore and content on day one (also known as pretty much impossible) at minimum - anything less and most MMO players will turn their nose up at it immediately.

Second point, while we're all veterans of the true frontrunner of superhero MMOs, any new players won't see it that way. They'll see VO (and CoT, and SoH) as upstarts coming for CO / DCUO. (Pause for laughter, coughing, and possible short term unconsciousness from the combination.) If we're bursting out the gate with either a monthly or an up-front P2P model and with less content than either of those, once again, lambasted all over the internet.

F2P/Freemium is the best option here imo, and if anyone can do it right, it's us gamers. We know what P2W looks like, and other than gamers with more money than actual skill, most of us reject the concept outright. (Though I disagree with having powersets buyable is P2W, not if they're balanced against all others. It's cosmetic at that point, imho.) We don't want the SWBF2 lootbox nightmare, and I'm pretty sure most of us would burn the server to the ground if the Nexon model went into effect.

For me personally, if a game is P2P, I have to sit down and take a long hard look at what it's got going for it, why I'm gonna sink money into it, so on. With City... well, I jumped in when it was P2P because it looked fun, (no surprise) it really was, and I stayed premium even after Freedom because it was worth supporting. (I also bought almost all the cosmetic everything on my main account, and several of the boosters on my second account as well, because it was worth supporting.) With F2P on the other hand, I'll jump in and take a look - just a peek's free, right? - and then if I like what I see I'll stick around and find ways to support the game, usually with cosmetic stuff from the cash shop. (If there's P2W in the cash shop, I'm usually out with a quickness because yeah no.)

I think believing any powers/classes etc are ever 'entirely balanced' in an MMO is a bit beyond naive. Unless they are -exactly- the same, and are -purely- cosmetic differences. Balance is always the goal, of course, but I've just never seen it.

Has the dev team considered in-game advertising moneztization?

There are ways this can be implemented in a way that's not intrusive at all:
1) Naming Rights - Allow a corporate sponsor to name a place or event in game (maybe even an item) (ie, Energy Drink Company Arena)
2) Digital billboards/posters - most urban environment games are filled with fake ads anyway

Of course, this would have to be carefully developed to not piss off the players. Between a fake ad and a real one, I don't necessarily care, and one generates revenue.

HappyRobot wrote:
This... is actually a somewhat interesting, if horrifying, concept. I mean... it's not bad, and yet... it's terrifying.

I'm very confused right now.

It's not as weird as you think it is.

8-5 I work at a corporation that basically puts advertisements on everything. Things you would never think about. Those ads at the bus stop, those are money. Posters on the side of a building, those are money. Billboards, those are money. IRL, the trick to them is to just put them in places where people will see them while going about their day.

Trade deals could be beneficial too. Like, Energy Drink Company gets to name something in the game after themselves but hypes VO on their website, giving us exposure to thousands of potential gamers, who try the game and become customers. Momentum is a powerful force. These things happen in other industries every day.

Having multiple revenue streams is a winning strategy.

Oh, no, I get it. I used to live with a guy whose main job was getting golf courses to put advertisements on their scorecards. Yes, advertisements are everywhere.

But, that's kind of the problem. I mean, when I pay money, and go to a movie, and they show 10 minutes of commercials (Not previews, those I'm okay with. I'm talking Mt. Dew commercials) I hate that. I REALLY hate that. I have an adblocker on my browser. I use Netflix to avoid TV commercials.

I don't really want MORE commercials in my life. Especially not in my gaming life.

I think it could have a massive negative effect on immersion, especially since this is supposed to be way in the future.

I want to see Silverhelms make money, and I want to see the game succeed. This could, admittedly, make a lot of money for them.

But I wouldn't play the game if they did it.

I think in-game "advertisements" - especially futuristic ones that matched the content would be perfect for immersion!

Not if they were everywhere, but seriously - all the cool digital holo-signs they have in the city? Let some brand name buy space, and the VO art dept comes up with a future-fitting design to match the world. San Cielo is supposed to be a real place after all right?

It wouldn't bother me in the least if Pepsi made my super-energy drink or say, Chee-tohs new cybernetic Chester Cheetah zoomed by and dropped me a sample or whatever lol... I guess it is a point of view thing, but that would just kick ass in my opinion. My friends and I would RP that all day long anyway.

Besides, I'm sure there will always be game-only businesses and such like Robot Rob's Used Cybernetics or whatever the case may be.

I like it. I hope they do at least a little of that if it becomes available. Would really drive home the 'reality' of the city!

Haplo wrote:
Eh, I maintain, I don't want to see advertisements for Pepsi in my playtime. Or anything real world. If I want real world, I'll go outside. Video games are happy pretendy fun time.

I would go so far as to say I simply -would not- play a game that had advertisements for RL products in it. I doubt I'm the only person in the world that feels this way.

So the devs have to consider, "Will people not play our game because we don't have advertisements?" vs "Will people not play our game because we do have advertisements?" vs "How much will Pepsi give us to put their advertisement in our game?"

The number of people who would not play the game over the advertisements (if done tastefully) is going to be infinitely smaller than people who would play the game and not care.

It shouldn't be discounted.

VO is actually one of extremely few games where in-game advertising or sponsorship might work. It would be insane in a game that takes place in the middle ages, or a parallel magical world, or a galaxy far away. But there are probably companies that hope to be around in a century (although they are probably wrong about that) and it would not be unnatural if they were visible in the game. I wouldn't be surprised seeing IKEA or H&M in the future (and they just might throw a few dollars at the devs for including them, although I don't know if it would be worth the trouble.) A free jetpack for fledgling heroes sponsored by some tech company? I would take that, greedily. This is a unique opportunity this game has that most don't. Of course, to get enough visitors to make it worthwhile, they will probably have to be Free to Play, but it seems they have decided to go that route anyway, unfortunately.

Personally I am already paying for the game and will probably continue to do so for as long as I find it fun. But most people today are totally fine with being parasites. I can understand that. When there are more offers than takers, of course you take what they throw after you for free. I don't pay for news channels relaying the latest political scandals or blogs peddling rumors about the next smartphone. But a decent superhero game, sure. The world is not exactly drowning in those.

I would be all in for a P2P subscription model with an in-game cosmetics shop. You are not risking a P2W scenario & the cosmetic shop will hook players where they're most vulnerable...their Vanity & Ego.

Well, in my opinion a buy-to-play model could work as some other games. Starting from level 1 to 15 as a free player and when you reach that level buying game for full content and unlocking other features. My other suggestion it’s purely as GW2, you get to max level as a free players but without having free teleport to zones, you don’t receive some special cosmetics and hard difficult raids and dungeons are blocked unless you buy full game.

Fraile wrote:
That sounds reasonable. They just have to make sure to avoid a Age of Conan Tortage situation in which the first part of the game at release was of polished utmost stellar performance with great storytelling etc and the moment you left that area it fell flat on its face; bug ridden less of everything; broke the games neck at the beginning and the leaving masses did not came back.

I've already decided the future of MMO's doesn't include people like me. I'm one of those sick twists that demand to see the results of all the money F2P makes for these companies. Games that purportedly make millions a month have a 'small dev team'? Or 'limited resources'?


Bullshit.

The money gets siphoned off by the parent company and is never used to develop or enhance the existing game. The game struggles along on a shoestring budget while the evil asian overlord profits and then discards it.

This is always done with lockboxes and cash shops.

CoX, to date, has had the only valid cash shop philosophy and was wildly profitable with it for Paragon Studios. However, it wasn't perverse or profane enough to appeal to NCSoft, so away it went.

I kind of mark then as the absolute end of valid MMO construction. Since then, only gambling scams, predatory practices, and bait and switch tactics have become the new norm. If this game does ANY single one of these, I will work to promote it's cancellation to everyone I know. That may not seem like it matters, but it does. If you're not going to be better than what exists, why should you exist?

I don't mind paying for a game, I believe they do need money to run the game and am more then willing to dish some out, but the only thing I dislike is what WoW does and another person mentioned. You lv up to lv 20 and can play no more unless you are subbed. A lot of subs may not seem like a lot, but multiple ones add up and some months I pay for my two to three months in one game, and the next month another...depending on my finances that is. The reason I hate the WoW this is if I pay loyally and one month I don't have the cash...well doesn't matter how much I put into it...I'm not playing that month. lol

I don't mine a system like SWTOR though where they limit exp gained, certain emotes, and money cap unless you sub, but I'd rather still be able to at least log in you know.

Subscription versus Cash Shop:

i dont mind paying for a game that i like with both methods or either one; however, i dont think most smaller games can survive as subscription because it curbs growth of player base (which is what a smaller game needs more than big games - new players).

Pay to win Versus Cash shop ability to exist without Pay to win

pay to win means non cosmetic items, such as progress / advancement aids or unlocks, or abilities / powerset unlocks. I feel that a Cash shop with only cosmetics will not attract enough business at all.

However, pay to win only affects the PvP aspects of a game, as having option to pay real money to be able to advance or progress faster in PvE out of convenience (not because of necessity) is a good thing not a bad thing; and makes the game company money.

pay to win doesnt exist that negatively in PvE, just in PvP. Thus, if this game is mostly a PvE open world with PvP being in duels / battlegrounds / arenas et cetera (or in optional content in other words, not required or open world content), then who cares about non cosmetic things such as powersets & abilities / gameplay and combat assisting aids being in the cash shop? And it makes money too for the game company.

Gambling box type items in a Cash shop (more relevant to other games than here at moment) - but are they a good thing or bad thing

a lot of games cash shops have them but not all. i dont feel that this form of internet gambling should be illegal; because gambling itself isnt illegal, its just that some forms of it are considered to cross the line and become illegal.

If a form of gambling is addictive but not dangerous, then its not as bad as alot of other addictions to be honest (not going to form a list of those but you get the picture). Illegal addictions often are dangerous as well. Legal addictions usually are not dangerous, like internet lockboxes.

I feel that so long as the lockboxes are only containing unique desirable things and special edition things - anything included such as additional powersets, rare costumes, just so long as its not vital to playing - then lockboxes are fine. More important or necessary use type things should be available in the game and / or as a cash shop enhanced or bonus option.


So basically, i would prefer cash shop with subscription optional, pay to win is okay so long as the game is PvE open world, and cash shop lockboxes for certain type items are okay.

Allen

Yea..no. I hate this lock box thing where you'll spend maybe 50 bucks trying to get something and yet have nothing to show for your money, and pay to win is even worse. The best thing they can do is have a standard sub like in SWTOR and cosmetic items for sell. I'd buy tons of cosmetic stuff if I thought it would make my character look awesome. Like specialized costumes, or say....wings, different tails, ect.

Rain-and-Thunder wrote:
I think I read somewhere they don't wanna add loot box gambling. And considering that when more and more countries either have started investigating them for gambling or already have marked them as illegal gambling investing into loot box development now is waste of precious time & money.