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Respec concept?

 
#4451
3 years 3 months ago
I put this in Leveling instead of Feature Requests because I'm optimistically assuming respec won't need to be specifically requested.

ZeeHero mentioned the respec process in a separate thread and it got me thinking: What makes sense in an MMO that includes the concept of character type (e.g. melee vs. ranged)?

The City of Heroes respec system allowed players to re-pick powers within the same primary and secondary, and also to pick different power pools. In other words, the basic archetype, primary, and secondary were locked, and everything else was as normal. Compare that to something like Diablo 3, where there is no concept of respec, and within a given character class the selected skills are completely mutable.

What is the plan for VO's respec system? I think it should be more flexible than the old CoX process, but I have an instinctual aversion to a respec token allowing a total character rebuild. I can't say why the latter seems bad to me, though...I can think of arguments against it from a PvP perspective, but I don't PvP, and also from a monetization perspective, but I'm not the game studio. I think maybe because it trivializes the identity of the toon? I'm not an altaholic myself, but I do think there should be a distinction between a respec and an alt. Not sure why. Maybe it's a principle thing.

Anyway, I haven't played many recent MMOs, so I'm not sure what systems are in the mode. I was curious to hear other people's thoughts.
Last Edit: 3 years 3 months ago by cristobal03.
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  • ZeeHero
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#4452
3 years 3 months ago
Respec tokens allowing a full character rebuild are fine, sometimes someone may desire to remake their character entirely, or maybe even make another character out of an old character.

Nothing wrong with that, and as long as the build system doesn't allow you to take every power at once it wont be a pvp issue either.
There is tremendous life and personality in a name. It should be at least as agonized over as any character trait.”
― Travis Beacham
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#4776
3 years 3 months ago
I think CoX had the right idea to somewhat cement the character based on the first creation of the character. Deciding to choose a certain build requires commitment. What's the point of having multiple characters if one can be all of them with a simple respec? Wouldn't people just switch out their bios to match this process?
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#4780
3 years 3 months ago
HotNerd wrote:
I think CoX had the right idea to somewhat cement the character based on the first creation of the character. Deciding to choose a certain build requires commitment. What's the point of having multiple characters if one can be all of them with a simple respec? Wouldn't people just switch out their bios to match this process?

Because yes, sometimes people no longer care for a character and want to repurpose them into an entirely new character. It's OK to do that, not everyone wants to put up with leveling again.

Respec tokens should allow a reset of literally everything.
There is tremendous life and personality in a name. It should be at least as agonized over as any character trait.”
― Travis Beacham
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#4781
3 years 3 months ago
Naw. Just make a new character and go through the leveling process again. Find a way to PL :P
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#4782
3 years 3 months ago
HotNerd wrote:
Naw. Just make a new character and go through the leveling process again. Find a way to PL :P

For what reason do you want respecs to be limited other than becuase of your own (seemingly selfish) opinion?

If you want to make a new character there's obviously nothing stopping you but don't limit people who don't feel like it. Making, leveling, progressing, and gearing a character is hard work.

If respecs allowed a full reset it would affect you in no negative way whatsoever. If they were limited, you bet some people would be upset.
There is tremendous life and personality in a name. It should be at least as agonized over as any character trait.”
― Travis Beacham
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#4786
3 years 3 months ago
Erm? My opinion comes from CoX. Calling my opinion selfish is lazy arguing. CoX worked right, and you're the one trying to change up all of its rules for reasons that you project onto me. Bleh. Obviously I disagree with the whole character reset and not having the primary and secondary powersets locked. It feels very lazy to allow such a reward.
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#4789
3 years 3 months ago
HotNerd wrote:
Erm? My opinion comes from CoX. Calling my opinion selfish is lazy arguing. CoX worked right, and you're the one trying to change up all of its rules for reasons that you project onto me. Bleh. Obviously I disagree with the whole character reset and not having the primary and secondary powersets locked. It feels very lazy to allow such a reward.

I understand you liked CoX but CoX wasn't perfect as good as it was, and this isn't CoX, this is a new game which would do well to learn from mistakes CoX made.

Your personal preference to have respecs limited is not the concern of other players.
There is tremendous life and personality in a name. It should be at least as agonized over as any character trait.”
― Travis Beacham
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#4801
3 years 3 months ago
I've never been much for online roleplaying, in the fashion it is often done in MMOs, but something that was nonetheless very important to me, and a view I think that I share with other players, is a concern about the character name. Your character's name is a big part in establishing your identity. It gives you a hook to hang your powers on. It is how other people recognize you.

That guy in the box to the left, surrounded by all the purple lights, was Sturmkrieger. Native of Germany, lord of lightning. In CoH, he was a storm/lightning Defender, naturally. But suppose I wanted to recast him as a Blaster, or take him to the Dark Side as a Corrupter. In CoH, I would have to play him on a different server, or rename him in an unsatisfying way (SturmkriegerX?), to explore different build styles.

It's all well and good to play a character for a few hours, decide it sucks, and build a new one. It's another thing if you've invested solid days of time into a character. That's a lot to sacrifice. And keeping the same name can be a problem. There is a small window of time between the decision to delete a character and the moment you can create a new character with that name, during which someone might just hijack your desired character name. I don't know how character creation works in VO yet, but I'd sure appreciate it if you at least had the option of picking a name at the beginning of character creation, rather than the end.

Likewise, there are lots of players who come on with SuperGuyxxx3, and are happy to use an exploit to powerlevel their 'toon' and beat up electrons. But there are also a lot of players who really do care about their online persona, and feel that the play experience is enriched by having a good name, an iconic build, a nice costume, etc. These deeper players will appreciate having total control over their character build, and the option to make different choices at a later date.

Allowing total respecs only hurts the game if it shakes out that there are a limited number of 'good' builds, resulting in Flavor of the Month builds tuned for doing high-end PvE content. But that's really a discussion for another thread.
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#4803
3 years 3 months ago
HotNerd wrote:
Erm? My opinion comes from CoX. Calling my opinion selfish is lazy arguing. CoX worked right, and you're the one trying to change up all of its rules for reasons that you project onto me. Bleh. Obviously I disagree with the whole character reset and not having the primary and secondary powersets locked. It feels very lazy to allow such a reward.

I'm not calling you selfish I'm pointing out that that's how it sounds when you want something to be limited for others becuase of a personal opinion on how something should work.
There is tremendous life and personality in a name. It should be at least as agonized over as any character trait.”
― Travis Beacham
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#4814
3 years 3 months ago
You should be able to do a full respec. There is precedent for this in comics themselves-- remember when Superman turned into a Blue/Red Lightning guy? Heroes lose and gain new powers all the time.
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#4821
3 years 3 months ago
Yeah, but I always thought that was kind of cheap in comics. Basically to completely rewrite/redesign a property on a whim. I guess it works on rare occasions, but it seems kind of gimmicky.

I'm fine with a full, basically-recreate-from-scratch respec approach as long as the cost (however defined) of a respec isn't as much as a character slot. Sometimes I might want to reconsider the powers/abilities of a toon because I made a bad choice, without going all out. As an economic lever, maybe there are tiers of respec, like a total respec or a less expensive utilitarian reconfig.

Thanks for the discussion and responding to my topic!
Last Edit: 3 years 3 months ago by cristobal03. Reason: Original did not demonstrate smart bargaining ploys : )
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#5033
3 years 3 months ago
I liked the way CoH did respecs. Keeping the base powersets the same allows for some changes, and makes the starting choices(powersets) seem to have some importance.

But outright changing a 50 blaster to a 50 defender on a whim seems stupid. Regardless of powerlevelling, there is something to be said about learning how your powersets work through actual gameplay. Mistakes aren't always bad. If you learn from them, and what your powers can and more importantly can't do, you become a much better player. The things a person learns from 1-50 make them a much better player of that archetype than someone who just got bored one day and wanted to change to a different one.

Ask me which blaster I want on my team...the ene/ene blaster who played from 1-50, or the guy who up until yesterday was a Martial arts/Super Reflexes scrapper...
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#5036
3 years 3 months ago
If you don't like it, you don't have to do it. That's why there should be partial and full respec tokens. But limiting respec options for everyone becuase of the opinions of a few people who want it restricted is not ok.
There is tremendous life and personality in a name. It should be at least as agonized over as any character trait.”
― Travis Beacham
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