Kefrem wrote:
Fortunately I heard word from the devs that a major combat revamp is coming after this patch which will likely give combat a feel closer to what you find in guild wars 2, which is a huge improvement from CoH combat and what VO uses right now.

ZeeHero wrote:
We will see. Being a coh successor is what is pulling a lot of people to VO, if they choose to be a gw clone they can compete with that crowd, if they want coh fans they will make a game more like coh. If I wanted to play a FPS game, there are plenty on the market already, there is nothing like coh. People liked COH for a reason, combat that requires you to bounce like a demented bunny was not part of that reason.

this is true. combat was definitely not a reason i played CoX. Probably the biggest weak point in the game.

ivanhedgehog wrote:
Improving on the terrible combat COH had can only help VO become a worthy successor.

ZeeHero wrote:
COH didnt have terrible combat. thats where you are wrong

sersi wrote:
Seems I'm not the only person who disagrees.

I've been lurking on this thread for a few days now...but you're right, the combat wasn't great. My thugs/dark MM spammed taunt+AoE taunt+ heal (with the occasional rez for regen debuffing) and I was able to solo nearly every AV/GM including Lusca towards the end of the games life. I saw someone earlier comment about Wildstar's system. I was with that game since beta (though I stopped just weeks after it came out due to pharmacy school taking up most of my time) and being a ranged class was actually viable. The CoX system literally made blasters impossible to do anything I liked doing solo (like soloing GMs/AVs lol). I was able to make a laser rifle/radiation defender work for those purposes, but he was useless in PVP, which I really enjoyed doing. CoX's combat system was a numbers game, and while I did enjoy it, the system took a lot of ways to play and rendered them irrelevant. I will agree with another person who said that the game wasn't about the combat. I loved logging on and not having to pay much attention to the game and just talking to my friends while listening to music because there weren't any audible telegraphs that needed my attention. That's not what everyone is looking for though, and especially after playing other games since CoX, I really want to see a blaster that can do the same things my offensive defender or my (broken AF) mastermind could. I didn't like being locked into making certain choices of powers and play styles just to actually feel like a "super hero."

Latera48 wrote:
what exactly was a mastermind supposed to do? their pets are their attacks. you were there to manage the pets, if you expected to be throwing attacks constantly, you chose the wrong class. Blasters were perfectly viable, if you built them right. some classes could solo things that others cant. pretty much every other game is like that. some classes on swtor can do thing that others cannot. It doesnt make the game broken.

Ivan: I'm sorry, I feel like you misinterpreted my post a lil bit. I really love the old system, I loved playing my mastermind, he was my absolute favorite character I've played in any video game ever. I think you said you wanted to be a tank and just play like CoX used to. I think that's fine. I just want other classes to be able to be fun to play as well, especially whilst playing solo. Giving ranged classes a dodge mechanic or something to aid them in solo experiences wouldn't hurt anything. In fact, it may even help increase the diversity of classes that are viable in both PVP and PVE, which would bring more appeal to the game and not alienate newer gamers who never got to experience the old CoX combat system. I don't want the game to become a twitch shooter or incredible movement intensive, but having a ranged class be rooted in place to launch an attack that took less than 1 second to cast then get a movement penalty afterwards is just sad. My first lvl 50 in Cox was an electric/energy blaster and I never really played him for end game content because he was incredibly underwhelming. There was no possible build for him that could have allowed him to solo Lusca or Jurassik, he was innately disadvantaged for being a ranged class. As I said in my last post, we're super heroes, we should feel like it.

Latera48 wrote:
once they introduced purple recipes and incarnate powers, the game became a lot more open to non scrappers or brutes doing things like that. I loved playing my demon and bots mm's. adding twitch mechanics to a game like this limits too many classes. having your stealther auto targeted pretty much m,akes them useless. I have seen other games become awful when random unexplained damage pops up to keep everyone moving even though the tank has full agro and has him positioned properly. I liked different enemy groups having different mechanics to deal with, some required movement and other required a kill order etc. It made for a better game than just having everyone jump around like a loon for every single boss type.

The constant way some posters who need not be named say "Jump around like a loon" really doesn't lend itself to confidence in their understanding of the combat which is being discussed and asked for.

ZeeHero wrote:
what part of "please make combat require a lot of movement" is difficult for you? You want the devs to REQUIRE people to move constantly while in combat. not allow...require. what part of that is hard? unless that thread title is incorrect?

ZeeHero wrote:
I think understanding is a huge part of this. I feel like we just aren't going to adequately be able to communicate our ideas in this case. Have a good night/day depending on where you're from!

ZeeHero wrote:
Isn't GW2s combat action oriented?

Would be awesome because I found out I have a really hard time getting back to WoW or CO type skill clickers after DCUO or BDO. I can easily tolerate it in STOs (space) combat because it gives a proper strategic feeling when commanding a big ass starship; but with individual characters it adds a certain amount of lameness to everything.

Anothername wrote:
Yeah I agree, although CO isn't a clicker combat MMO, it's got much more of an actiony feel than COH or WOW. which is why I'll be happy if VO can at least match CO's combat in quality, happier still if they do better.

Kefrem wrote: Everquest came out in 99 and Ultima well before that and both of them are still around. While I can't speak for UO, EQ had movement requirements, not on everything but on some. Instead of dodge the glowie you had mob emotes attack and you do appropriate movement/tank refaces mob. I played melee and ranged characters in that game. What gets me is Zee has ADMITTED to only playing CoX for 1 hour, never making it out of the tutorial and continues to talk about the game like she knows what ti was about, how it worked and what everyone did. She also has made a habbit of attacking people in discord who say anything contrary to her opinion or points otu when she has no idea what she is talking about. She has made statements about hte game that are false, has stated that you only need 3-4 abilities and any more just makes combat unfun. As for moving in CoX I am what you call an alt-a-holic. I change mains frequently and play styles as well, and I tend to get pretty competent at most of them. I played an ice/kin and it was a very stationary play style. It was one of my most frequently played toons and not just farming although she excelled in that, but in teams and in incarnate content. While stationary the play style did require knowing and timing your abilities. My soldier mastermind was also a stationary play style and I played him with the battlefield general mindset. I sent different pet groups after different targets and supported the hell out of them. The difficulty in those 2 was in the tactical decisions you had to make. While some movement in incarnate was needed I did as little movement on those as I had to. This was fun for me, and a lot of others. My ice/rad corrupter however was mobile. I had the freeze ray powers that I ised tactically but they were not up for every fight. My elec/pain corrupter was something of a mix depending on your group. the issue is that what Zee seems to want is Terra style but will settle for CO style. I HATE Terra, The KStyle is not a "BETTER" style it's different style. It is not the gold standard and BTW their market strat has little to do with their combat and more to do with buying skimpy cloths for the female toons. That is the basis of all those kind of games because when you strip away the art the games are repetitive and unoriginal. I am not saying it's a bad system it just isn't my way of doing it, I like the varied styles of the CoH system and CO is a much lesser copy. It had a lot of potential and there are a couple games (can't remember the names off the top of my head" that are going for that over the CoH style, but CoH was a great system and with a few tweaks more in balance than in mechanics it will hold up. By the way going for a niche market isn't a bad business model unless your only goal is make as much money with as little effort as possible. That is a publishers mind set not a developers mind set.

ryokoryu wrote:
the people wanting characters to only have 3 or 4 powers are lost console gamers. many of these loved the constant movement street fighter type games. If the devs choose to cater to this demographic they will be making a huge mistake, driving off a large market segment. we will see.

ivanhedgehog wrote:
I find this extremely amusing. 3 or 4 powers? I'd be happy with 8-14, but 20-30 is way too much bloat.

I also find it extremely amusing you think this is something unique to console games. ESO and NWO combat is superior and they don't have power bloat. you have 6 powers or so to use at a time in both those games.

If they want to drive off a large portion of the market they can do so by making combat the same boring crap which belongs in the early 90s.

ZeeHero wrote:
rock 'em sock 'em robots.

i mean, i loathe the toxicity of this thread and have secretly hoped for months that the admins would close it, but, just sayin'. that was legitimately a pretty kick-ass game in my book. maybe you had to be poor?

seriously, though, is this thread going anywhere? people disagree. silverhelm already explained their combat approach. can we be done here? for all the talk of profitability and draw, nobody's going to want to jump in on a game where the alpha community can't move past a dispute that the devs already settled. if i'm honest, it's not making me feel fuzzy about future prospects. people are well beyond sounding petty at this point. on all sides.

can we just, not, anymore?

Silverhelm did explain their combat approach and more, and according to what I've seen them say I have very little fear they'll replicate the same mistakes previous games have made in combat to a significant degree.

However some people just wont stop insisting otherwise.

I'm not really worried anymore about combat in the future for this game since according to the developers it will undergo some major changes in the future which should improve it greatly.