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Please make Combat require a lot of movement.

 
  • ZeeHero
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#3875
3 years 5 months ago
Allow powers to be used while moving and force the player to move a lot to avoid major enemy attacks during combat. if the engine allows it allow travel powers to remain in use in combat. this makes it feel fun and more "Super".

Even ancient mmos like World of Warcraft force the player to move around a lot in combat and this is for a very good reason. being forced to remain aware of your surroundings and react to them and move accordingly is a big part of making gameplay fun and challenging.
There is tremendous life and personality in a name. It should be at least as agonized over as any character trait.”
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Last Edit: 3 years 5 months ago by ZeeHero.
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#3876
3 years 5 months ago
ZeeHero wrote:
Allow powers to be used while moving and force the player to move a lot to avoid major enemy attacks during combat. if the engine allows it allow travel powers to remain in use in combat. this makes it feel fun and more "Super".

Even ancient mmos like World of Warcraft force the player to move around a lot in combat and this is for a very good reason. being forced to remain aware of your surroundings and react to them and move accordingly is a big part of making gameplay fun and challenging.


WOW requires movement in boss fights. not all through leveling. Arbitrarily requiring ranged(who often channel) to move makes no sense. Because you like to zoom around, everyone should? COH never did this and was fine. My stone/em tank didnt have to zoom around like a squirrel on energy drink to be super.
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  • ZeeHero
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#3877
3 years 5 months ago
It's a basic feature of enemy design. and who said ranged attacks won't be able to be channeled while moving? in a Super Hero game I'd certainly hope they would!

Bottom line is VO isn't going to be exactly city of heroes and city of heroes is a 12 year old game now.

Have you played other MMOs at all? Just about every highly successful game does this. Or maybe watch a super hero movie and see if the characters stand still all the time?

If we want combat to be fun and engaging some amount of movement is going to be necessary.

Try Final Fantasy 14 online, one of the best mmos of our time to still use a classic mmo combat system and you'll see what I'm talking about.

VO is going to have to compete with other MMOs on the market, and to be successful combat is going to have to be made fun and engaging somehow.

There is tremendous life and personality in a name. It should be at least as agonized over as any character trait.”
― Travis Beacham
Last Edit: 3 years 5 months ago by ZeeHero.
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#3883
3 years 5 months ago
ZeeHero wrote:
It's a basic feature of enemy design. and who said ranged attacks won't be able to be channeled while moving? in a Super Hero game I'd certainly hope they would!

Bottom line is VO isn't going to be exactly city of heroes and city of heroes is a 12 year old game now.

Have you played other MMOs at all? Just about every highly successful game does this. Or maybe watch a super hero movie and see if the characters stand still all the time?

If we want combat to be fun and engaging some amount of movement is going to be necessary.

Try Final Fantasy 14 online, one of the best mmos of our time to still use a classic mmo combat system and you'll see what I'm talking about.

VO is going to have to compete with other MMOs on the market, and to be successful combat is going to have to be made fun and engaging somehow.


wow only does it for boss fights. Most games dont allow you to channel while moving. If you want constant footwork while fighting, feel free, but please dont force it throughout the game. Boss fights that do this are fine, but not all should. Boss fights should have varied mechanics. Forcing every fight to be a "tapdance out of red circles" makes for a boooring game, and eliminates a sizable number of hero options,such as stone tanks.
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  • ZeeHero
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#3884
3 years 5 months ago
That's not necessarily true. What if the game does let you channel while moving? that's honestly a more fun option right? What if stone tanks can move around just as well as anyone else?

you're basing your assumptions off how things were in City of Heroes without taking into account this is going to be Valiance Online, and we honestly don't know everything about how combat will work yet.

I've played games which let you channel moving. Champions Online for all its failings does that for many powers and it's sure a lot more fun and engaging than standing still exchanging punches with a static enemy.
There is tremendous life and personality in a name. It should be at least as agonized over as any character trait.”
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#3919
3 years 5 months ago
Agreed avoiding blows is as much fun as giving them Movement in combat is a must.
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#3922
3 years 5 months ago


Yeah this is pretty cool :woohoo:
There is tremendous life and personality in a name. It should be at least as agonized over as any character trait.”
― Travis Beacham
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#3933
3 years 5 months ago
I hope for a more DCUO like action-combat. Which usually requires movement.
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  • Gerald Deemer
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#4038
3 years 5 months ago
ZeeHero wrote:
if the engine allows it allow travel powers to remain in use in combat. this makes it feel fun and more "Super".

I remember this was one of the biggest problem of CO at the beginning. Flying ranged DPS heroes devestated melee heroes which had ground travel powers.
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#4039
3 years 5 months ago
Gerald Deemer wrote:
ZeeHero wrote:
if the engine allows it allow travel powers to remain in use in combat. this makes it feel fun and more "Super".

I remember this was one of the biggest problem of CO at the beginning. Flying ranged DPS heroes devestated melee heroes which had ground travel powers.

You know that's easily countered by anything with travel power removal? giving every archetype a way to temporarily disable travel powers fixes that (pvp) issue easily.

Once that melee hero has a lunge with Nailed to the Ground that flying hero is in for a rude awakening.
There is tremendous life and personality in a name. It should be at least as agonized over as any character trait.”
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#4040
3 years 5 months ago
or they could make being flagged for pvp enable travel supression. If you are flagged and attack someone your travel powers are shut off or degraded. That way pve isnt crippled by pvp problems and pvper can have fun.
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  • ZeeHero
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#4041
3 years 5 months ago
ivanhedgehog wrote:
or they could make being flagged for pvp enable travel supression. If you are flagged and attack someone your travel powers are shut off or degraded. That way pve isnt crippled by pvp problems and pvper can have fun.

No becuase using travel powers should be a valid part of fighting. that's what made PVP in Champions Online even remotely fun in the first place.

But being able to shut off enemy travels for a limited period of time every 30 seconds or so would be fine. that's how it works there and it's easily enough.
There is tremendous life and personality in a name. It should be at least as agonized over as any character trait.”
― Travis Beacham
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#4044
3 years 5 months ago
ZeeHero wrote:
ivanhedgehog wrote:
or they could make being flagged for pvp enable travel supression. If you are flagged and attack someone your travel powers are shut off or degraded. That way pve isnt crippled by pvp problems and pvper can have fun.

No becuase using travel powers should be a valid part of fighting. that's what made PVP in Champions Online even remotely fun in the first place.

But being able to shut off enemy travels for a limited period of time every 30 seconds or so would be fine. that's how it works there and it's easily enough.

and throws pve under the bus. coh's travel supression was better than that. when you have 12 or 15 mobs that can each turn off you travel power, the game becomes unfun quick. Hopefully the devs will keep pvp in its own phase or zone and away from the rest of us.
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  • ZeeHero
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#4045
3 years 5 months ago
Actually that's not a problem becuase after your travel power is disabled once you get a buff which prevents it from being disabled again.

In this way your travel can only ever be disabled once every 20-30 seconds or so for 15 seconds.
There is tremendous life and personality in a name. It should be at least as agonized over as any character trait.”
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#4073
3 years 5 months ago
I personally disagree with trying to harmonize PVE and PVP. Fundamentally different play styles that appeal to fundamentally different gamers. Building a mechanic that satisfies both would be like the unified field theory of MMO.

I think ivanhedgehog's point (sorry if I got this wrong) is, don't box me in. Let me play how I want to play. I don't care how old a game is; that principle will always be relevant. CoX did that exceedingly well. I'm not saying the fight engine should be identical in VO, but support the principle. If someone wants to move around a lot, allow that. If someone wants to snipe, allow that. If someone wants to park a tank, allow that.

If VO is truly a spiritual successor, the spirit of CoX was to let players do their thing.

I like the idea of travel powers in combat, but it seems exploitable. What if there were a variant of the travel power that wouldn't let you break away from the fight? So, e.g., if it's something like a speedster ability, you could still use it within a radius of the combat collision, but past that radius a suppression would kick in. Or with something aerial, it would only work during combat if you carried the target (or similar)? Maybe those are dumb ideas, I don't know. Just trying to think of ways to avoid the drive-by problem. It would seem more fair if you had to stay in a danger zone.
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  • ZeeHero
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#4075
3 years 5 months ago
If there's anything I've learned about games it's that players will always find ways to play it in ways the developers never intended. this isn't bad.

I agree that people should play the way they want. This includes being able to use travel powers in combat.

I don't want travel powers to be REQUIRED in combat, that it would require SO MUCH movement you'd need a specific travel power to survive. I just don't want bland boring combat where everyone stands still.

Travel powers in combat were one of the few things Champions Online did right. Sure some players would use it creatively to kite enemies but that's not a bad thing, that's just players being smart, and taking away the ability to use travel in combat only means they'll find some other way to be smart.
There is tremendous life and personality in a name. It should be at least as agonized over as any character trait.”
― Travis Beacham
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#4924
3 years 2 months ago
Personally, this is one of the things I absolutely hate about WoW. As a melee character at ground zero on a boss, with everyone's powers going off, its not always super apparent you are standing in bad stuff, until it's too late - without a bunch of addons barking at you. The original City of Heroes never had this type combat, and it's probably the reason I loved the game so much.

I understand everyone is different, and it's cool that you like that type of combat, but I'll never be onboard for this type of gameplay mechanic.
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#4925
3 years 2 months ago
captain_karate wrote:
Personally, this is one of the things I absolutely hate about WoW. As a melee character at ground zero on a boss, with everyone's powers going off, its not always super apparent you are standing in bad stuff, until it's too late - without a bunch of addons barking at you. The original City of Heroes never had this type combat, and it's probably the reason I loved the game so much.

I understand everyone is different, and it's cool that you like that type of combat, but I'll never be onboard for this type of gameplay mechanic.

WoW doesn't do it really well so it's not a good example. FFXIV will make it really obvious that the boss is about to do something which will hurt you which will be visible even with all the FX going off. theres obviously a right and wrong way to do it.

Even with all the FX going off if you can see the boss's cast bar, you'll know without doubt he's about to use his big ability which you have to move for.

As long as its not poorly implemented its just a matter of learning to play. these mechanics are a staple in every successful MMO today.
There is tremendous life and personality in a name. It should be at least as agonized over as any character trait.”
― Travis Beacham
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#4935
3 years 2 months ago
Cant comment on the other MMOs you mentioned, since I've not played them. For me, it's a personal preference. I do not like that kind of combat mechanic, so will never support the idea. I do understand where you are coming from though, so I hope you can see my position from a similar perspective.

Happy gaming. :)
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#4937
3 years 2 months ago
captain_karate wrote:
Cant comment on the other MMOs you mentioned, since I've not played them. For me, it's a personal preference. I do not like that kind of combat mechanic, so will never support the idea. I do understand where you are coming from though, so I hope you can see my position from a similar perspective.

Happy gaming. :)

I honestly can't because I don't know how you find combat where you mindlessly pound on non moving non dangerous enemies interesting. these aoe zones are intended to make enemies dangerous for everyone, not just people with aggro.
There is tremendous life and personality in a name. It should be at least as agonized over as any character trait.”
― Travis Beacham
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